A public letter for Dr. Pat Robertson:
Dear Dr. Robertson-
As a fellow Christian and Church leader, I have two words for you out of my deep concern for the people of Haiti, the rest of the world, Christ’s Church, and you: shut up!
Allow me to elaborate.
As you know, the media has reported you saying that the earthquake in Haiti resulted from Haitians having once made a pact with the devil. The reality of Haiti’s ongoing poverty and suffering has been heartbreaking to so many people. Much of the world is now in shock and in terrible grief over the aftermath of Tuesday’s earthquake. Then, like salt poured into an open wound, we have to deal with your comments. You haven’t done yourself any service by trying to clarify them; if anything you’ve made things worse.
I fully understand that too often the media wrongly reports things that notable people say or quotes them out of context, but even if you are within a slim sliver of being slightly, remotely correct that the earthquake in Haiti was somehow a consequence of a “widely-discussed 1791 slave rebellion led by Boukman Dutty at Bois Caiman, where the slaves allegedly made a famous pact with the devil in exchange for victory over the French,” in the face of such death and vast human suffering in Haiti, 
your horrific comments are painful and inappropriate to the extreme. So, the next time something like this happens (God forbid!), please limit yourself to share your sorrow, pray, and encourage fellow Christians to give and to get involved. If you’re feeling the need to say anything else, do yourself and all the rest of us a favor and go on a very long vacation… or just retire! And if the temptation is still within you, buy a case of duct tape to paste on your mouth.
Furthermore, it is apparent that you do not understand the impact that comments like these have on those who are not Christians. They hear you say things like this and then distance themselves even further from Christianity and the Church. You make it especially difficult for the rest of us to do our jobs. Now, thanks to you, it is even more difficult to invite and form new disciples of Jesus when the same people we’re trying to love and reach more profoundly associate the Church with the kind of coldness, insensitivity, harshness, and judgmental attitudes that you and others before you have espoused, most especially during horrific times of crisis and disaster.
So, just in case you didn’t hear me before, please take my humble advice, Dr. Robertson: shut up!
Respectfully Yours,
Rev. Chris Owens
First United Methodist Church, Senior Pastor
Laurel, MD
Pastor Chris Owens - - Musings, Rants, and Reflections 
Yeah…
Prov 17:27-28 (NIV)
A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.
Excellent Scripture, Dave! I hope to take that piece of wisdom, too…
As a christian, is it so far fetched to believe that a nations woes could be blamed for prayers offered up to a pagan god? If so then why don’t we balk at the idea of of a nation of jews wandering in a tiny desert 40 years simply because of their unbelief in the power of God?
I’ve watched Robertson’s comment now several times. Unfortunately I’ve yet to find a video that shows the comment or question just prior to his now famous comment – how convenient for those looking to tear a man down.
I did not hear Robertson say the Haitian people brought this on themselves because they are devil worshippers. What I heard was a postulation that Haiti’s woes may be the result of a pact made with the devil (I believe Robertson was over simplying the Bois Caiman Ceremony and the Voduo cult by wrapping it up in the word “Devil”). Is this any different than putting our “Hope” for the country in a president? Look at what has happened to the United States in just the last 40 Years as we remove God from all aspects of our culture, society and government. As a christian I don’t find it too far fetched to believe that our woes are related to our nation turning its back on God.
And about his comment “Maybe this is a blessing in disguise”. This was a sound bite taken out of context. It was in repsonse to a comment made about the poor construction technics and material used for homes and businesses.
It’s hard to see any blessings in the midst of such an emotionally charged atomsphere. But before too long we christians will be talking about the hidden blessings that come from this tragedy. Think about it, when someones life is saved thanks to the generosity of an organ donor – often one who has died tradgically – do we not call it a “Blessing from God” that in turn someones life is saved?
Chris, you say “Pat, SHUT UP!”
I think we could all apply the scripture Dave Self has shared with us:
Prov 17:27-28 (NIV)
A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.
Remember our greatest commandment
Mark 12:30-31
Love the lord God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength ~ Love thy neighbor as yourself.
God has blessed us with the opportunity to exercise this commandment and pour out agape love on the Haitian people.
Thank you for this. I was starting to wonder if I was the only sane christian left.
I must ask forgiveness and apologize to Chris and others for any of my own hurtful comments.
And once again thanks. God bless you for this well thought out and kind response.
you go Rev. Chris.
As we all should, myself included. As I said on Facebook, I have been sharing this and have had two other friends also share it.
[ I didn’t mean to give my own reply a thumbs up, I was meaning to rate the blog, it self. :-) ]
Wow… I’m deeply honored that you would share this, Dave. Thank you!
Jesus said that God does not use nature for punishment. “for He sends the rain on the just and on the unjust.”
If He did, why would He wait for the 200 year pact to expire and punish people who didn’t make the pact?
If Katrina was punishment for New Orleans sin, why did it spare the French Quarter? Does God have bad aim?
Not only is the theology childish, but the lack of critical thinking is embarrassing. Or should be.
Jesus also said, “as you have done it unto the least of these my brothers, you have done it unto me.”
Hummmm……..maybe compassion trumps judgment. Do ya think?
Certainly does. That is why CBN and Pat called for prayer for them and is sending aid. What is anyone here including Chris doing except tearing down a man of God and thereby doing satans dirty work. The world and satan is laughing at us because we can’t support each other when someone actually speaks the truth and is actually praying for them and sending actual help.
For the accusers here, including Chris stop doing satans work and stop accusing the brethren and support your brother in Christ.
And insteading of tearing down, get together with Pat and CBN and help them send the relief they are sending.
Actually do something positive.
In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
I have sent a substantial amount of money; I have prayed without ceasing. Those are positive things.
I am doing something else positive: I am denouncing Pat Robertson everywhere I can as a false prophet and profiteering charlatan. This hatemongering crazy man has been the public face of Christianity for far too long. He is vile, and the Truth is not in him. He defames the Name of Christ and damages the Body and our witness.
Chris,
AMEN!!!
Chris, woe, woe, woe. Accuser of the brethren.
Get the behind me satan.
Joseph I’ve read your multiple comments. I’m sure nothing I say here would set you at ease, but here goes, anyway:
1) I do not judge Robertson’s relationship with Jesus Christ, his faith, his salvation, or his personhood. However, we are expected to inspect the fruit of other people. The fruit of his comments have been destructive, and therefore I condemn them, even as I refuse to condemn the man. That would be God’s job and God’s alone.
2) I am not the accuser of the brethren. There is only one of those, and I don’t work for him, thank you very much. In this case I am an accuser of my brethren’s idiocy, and I’ve been joined by a growing chorus of faithful others in standing against such destructive idiocy.
{Sigh} Chris, I understand where you and the others are coming from really I do. But you and the others may as well be treating Pat as devil incarnate with the comments and name calling.
There is such a lack of respect of this man of God and lack of respect of an elder in the faith as well as an older person.
I realize there are strong emotions concernin his particular statement but you and others are still hearing selectively and putting meaning where there is none.
And at any other time, say a study on the dangers of curses and a study on spiritual warfare his comment would have been made in the proper time. Either way, I do not think and do not feel it was at all necessary to condemn him in such an unchristian and harsh way.
The bible in revelation says the love of many will grow cold. I believe you did not do this in love at all, but in anger and frustration. And you are probably right you will not change my mind or heart in defending a man of God from christians that are allowing satan to use their tongues and minds to do nothing but attack the ministry of CBN. I could send you a lot of scripture support where I know I have a lot more ground to stand on but I fear that would be useless anyway. So, I am sorry that you feel this way and that you are leading a devisive march against a fellow christian rather than trying to help Haiti physically and spiritually. Fight the REAL enemy. May God keep you and the others here even if we do not agree and may none of this seperate us from the unity and truth we have as believers in Jesus Christ. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Bladow! Go hard, Chris.
Whether the tragedy in Haiti was somehow connected to some pact with the Devil is inconsequential. Christ is supreme and to him we must appeal either way! Demonic influence or not, grace is crucial to all of our continued existence and we should be praying for that and being a conduit of that.
PS- Would you link this blog to your Facebook already so I don’t keep missing your posts new posts. Sheesh.
Actually, I did post this one to Facebook, Bill! :-) But anyway, I think your point on grace is well, well taken. if more of us lived by grace over judgment, we just might see more of God.
Good call – I often find myself slapping my head in embarrassment at sharing the same supposed faith as some people. Can you say “Westboro Baptist”?
Hear, hear!
Thanks, Chris.
Amen brother!
I think Christians should be allowed to decide who speaks “on their behalf”.
Any REAL pastor, priest, reverend, etc would beat out Pat Robertson by a landslide.
There needs to be some way for Christianity to shut him up.
According to his views, maybe God will cause a localized earthquake under the studio of the 700 club for making Christianity look bad.
I wish.
Eric, I’m not sure who that person would be. But if enough of us who make up Christ’s Body speak out strongly, we’ll prevail in shutting up that kind of destructive nonsense.
Chris, Thank you for your statement. You are absolutely correct. We must stand against the Robertson falsehood.
I called the Robertson 1-800 number this afternoon. There was absolutely no way they could have failed to understand how opposed I am to what he said.
I’m so glad you did, Harry! And thanks for leaving your thoughts here, too…
There is no falsehood. You haven’t heard about curses?
Spiritual warfare you know. You and Chris need forgiveness for acting like satan and accusing the brethren for speaking the truth and doing a good work.
1) Pat Robertson says that a small group of Hatians [after all, the whole nation didn’t assemble and do this] made a pact with the devil, which explains Haiti’s historical sufferings.
It used to be that many Christian churches said that Matthew 27:25 — which has a courtyard full of Jews of Jesus’ time saying “may his blood be upon ourselves and upon our children” — originated a curse on the *Jewish* people which explained *their* historical sufferings. Similar? Seems so to me. [Thank God we’ve at least left *that* behind us.]
2) To win international recognition after achieving independence, the Haitians had to pay heavy “reparations” to their colonizers [!] which they were still paying 100 years after their independence. Could *this* have had something to do with their poverty?
2) Robertson said that the Haitians gained their independence fron “Napoleon III or whatever.” The Haitians gained their independence in 1804. Napoleon III ruled France from 1852 to 1870. I gather this indicates Robertson’s level of knowledge of the subject.
This is one situation where a well-placed expletive will really help to drive your point home there Reverend Chris.
For instance: Shut the f#^@ up!
Just trying to be of assistance.
I have a post on my blog describing the religious demographics of Haiti. However, I think this is a very good opportunity to evangelize. As Christians, we need to help them physcially, but also spiritually as God allows. Did God do this because they filled up their cup of sin? I think it has more to do with HAARP and geo-engineering, myself.
I lost interest in Robertson when I learned he had diamond mines and used Operation Blessing planes to transport the diamonds.
If you want to see the article, The Bondage of Haiti, my blog is http://www.narrowgate.wordpress.com
Delete the above address is you don’t.
Thanks so much for your link! Perhaps others will read it, too.
I saw your post on Facebook. I clicked, did not preview…just read it out loud to my 89 year old father. His eyebrows went up in shock of what had been said by Mr. Robertson…he just shook his head. Then, as I read on…he laughed and ‘signified’ with tears in his eyes (Of course, you will be happy to know that I read your letter with EVERY inflection, the best elocution and all the righteous indignation I could muster.)After your final line, he said…”Well, he told him, didn’t he? Good. Good man.”
Bpladow!! works for me. Compassion ALWAYS trumps judgment and Proverbs 17:27-28 should be memorized by children in grade school along with the multiplication tables.
Thank you for your obedience.
God’s continued favor,
Yve
Hello Yve! Thank you for sharing my letter… I’m glad it was an encouragement to you and your father.
Dear Pastor,
I agree with you that Pat Robertson should shut up.
I agree that you need to forgiveness. Stop tearing a man of God down just like satan.
Yeah, we need to forgive indeed but does not mean we cannot advise him to shut up
Well, let us see what the King of the universe has to say in His Word. I will only list the verses so all of you can look them up and see what the Lord has to say about the matter.
Deut. 8:19-20
Deut. 28:15-68
1 Samuel 25:37-38
Psalm 66:18
Hosea 4:6
John 9:31
Romans 1:18-32
Galatians 5:19-21
Now if the Holy Spirit has led you thus far and you are listening to His voice, please read these awesome promises that our Father has promised us.
Exodus 20:12
Lev. 11:44
Lev. 19:2
Deut. 5:33
Deut. 28:1-14
Job 28:28
Psalm 4:4
Pr. 4:10
Pr. 10:27
Matthew 18:19
John 15:7
Romans 13:12
2 Cor. 7:1
Ephesians 4:27
1 Thess. 4:7
James 4:7
1 Peter 1:15-16
Of course, I can list promise after promise. Whether it is a promise to bring ruin upon those that do not follow the Lord’s ways or a promise that brings blessings and awesome powers to believing believers such as Mark 16:17-18 and Luke 10:19-20, God cannot lie. Whatever is written in His book, that is the rule of law for every man, woman and child — Christian or not.
And the devil knows this very, very well. That the less and less the Church, especially the American Church, knows what authority, power and awesome promises we have from God Almighty, the more and more sicknesses, diseases, natural disasters, man-made disasters, etc. that the devil can put upon us; except for those that understand Psalm 91.
Remember everything we see, hear, taste, touch, smell, build, earn, sow, reap, etc. belongs to the Lord. And that means EVERYTHING since he created EVERYTHING.
Lastly, I am not saying that Haiti or any other country or the individual receives pain and suffering due to sin. The LORD is saying that Haiti or any other country or the individual receives pain and suffering due to sin. Just study the Word of God and live by His commandments, laws, statutes, and precepts and you shall live and have no sicknesses or diseases the rest of your life!
Praise the King!
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Not being a christian myself, it is nice to see rationality accompany your strong faith. If this were a commodity, there would be less people driven away from the church.
I fully agree, Mark… Just so you know that people like PR do not speak for the vast majority of us who only seek to love God, love others, and become like Jesus.
Please guys, can’t we show some unity in Christ here.
What Pat referred to was actual history. Therefore he mentioned the truth at the same time he asked for prayer and for help for the Haitian people and that that was what is important right now.
And truth is curses DO affect our lives. Jesus is in control of our lives but unless those curses are dealt with they give place and the right of control of demons in our lives.
Haiti is facing a physical disaster but has faced a spiritual disaster on a larger scale because people and even christians won’t see the truth.
I think this response to Pat Robertson is in poor taste and you all need to ask forgiveness and to stand around you christian brother now and support him instead of doing the work of the accuser, satan and tearing a man of God down.
So let me see if I get this right.
1) According to your belief, several generations ago some people made a pact with the Devil in order to gain freedom from oppression and slavery.
2) The Devil freed them from oppression and slavery.
3) Since then God has been punishing the nation of Haiti for entering into this pact with the Devil.
4) The estimated 30-40,000 people who were killed in this earthquake were killed as part of God’s punishment enacted for this pact made with the Devil.
Based on these beliefs I have the following questions –
A) Why did God allow these people to be oppressed and enslaved in the first place? Wouldn’t it have led to far fewer problems if God had simply freed them?
B) Do you REALLY want to argue that the Devil frees people from oppression and slavery, while God is content to leave them in bondage? That has some rather uncomfortable theological implications, don’t you think?
C) Accepting for a moment that this curse placed on the Haitians is real, why didn’t God simply punish the people who made the original pact, rather than allowing them to be rewarded with freedom from slavery and then punishing later generations – people who in fact did not make a pact with the Devil, and had nothing to do with the whole thing except for having the misfortune of being born to the people who did?
D) What about people who immigrated to Haiti after the pact was made? Surely they and their descendants are innocent of wrongdoing, yet there is no evidence that they were spared. God could not be so undiscriminating in His punishment as to punish the just with the unjust, could He?
E) Given that the United States benefited greatly from the slave revolt in Haiti – it was one of the key elements that decided France to get out of the American colonies and allowed the United States to make the Louisiana Purchase after all – why wasn’t the United States punished for this pact?
A} Correct
B} The devil can do a lot things. Ever heard of the anti-christ swaying the “whole” world. This isn’t speeking of spiritual freedom.
C} No, God has not been punishing but their are consequences of dealing with the devil and magic etc. that generally unless dealt with have lasting effects.
D} No, they were killed because of a natural disaster. And also because the protection of God is not with them.
E} Sure, it would have been easier but guess what they didn’t ask God…through Jesus…they asked the devil.
F} Again, read Revelation. The freedom is an illusion.
G} Curses can effect the individual and the family and the country as a whole. If you look in the Old Testament and Joshua if I remember was doing okay at battling enemies until something stop God from supporting them. It was because of one individual that did something God was not pleased with. Curses and playing around with the devil is no game.
H}Read answer G. Although, God knows who to protect. Leave that decision up to him.
J} Interesting that you should bring that up. America is still haunted by the curse of the spirit of slavery and still can be divided on that issue. But you can’t see how that effect us now can you?
Finally, in all honesty you are defending the enemies spiritual attacks on a godly man Pat Robertson, on a godly ministry CBN and ultimately instead of helping a brother out and entering into spiritual warfare on behalf of the people of Haiti insist on defending their spiritual bondage. I really hurt for them and for you. May Jesus help you see and take your blindness away. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
ME
A) Why did God allow these people to be oppressed and enslaved in the first place? Wouldn’t it have led to far fewer problems if God had simply freed them?
JOSEPHONE
A} Correct
Good. I am glad we agree on this.
ME
B) Do you REALLY want to argue that the Devil frees people from oppression and slavery, while God is content to leave them in bondage? That has some rather uncomfortable theological implications, don’t you think?
JOSEPHONE
B} The devil can do a lot things. Ever heard of the anti-christ swaying the “whole” world. This isn’t speeking of spiritual freedom.
OK. If that’s the sort of theology you want – powerful devil, powerless deity, then who am I go question it?
ME
C) Accepting for a moment that this curse placed on the Haitians is real, why didn’t God simply punish the people who made the original pact, rather than allowing them to be rewarded with freedom from slavery and then punishing later generations – people who in fact did not make a pact with the Devil, and had nothing to do with the whole thing except for having the misfortune of being born to the people who did?
JOSEPHONE
C} No, God has not been punishing but their are consequences of dealing with the devil and magic etc. that generally unless dealt with have lasting effects.
So in other words subsequent generations, despite building churches, converting to Christianity, being baptized, taking communion, and generally living as good Christians their entire lives are still going to get smacked by this curse?
Man, that is terrible.
ME
D) What about people who immigrated to Haiti after the pact was made? Surely they and their descendants are innocent of wrongdoing, yet there is no evidence that they were spared. God could not be so undiscriminating in His punishment as to punish the just with the unjust, could He?
JOSEPHONE
D} No, they were killed because of a natural disaster. And also because the protection of God is not with them.
So in other words immigrants and their descendants, despite building churches, being mostly Christians, being baptized, taking communion, and generally living as good Christians their entire lives deprived of God’s protection because they happen to live in physical proximity to the descendants of the makers of the original pact?
Man, that’s terrible.
ME
E) Given that the United States benefited greatly from the slave revolt in Haiti – it was one of the key elements that decided France to get out of the American colonies and allowed the United States to make the Louisiana Purchase after all – why wasn’t the United States punished for this pact?
YOU
E} Sure, it would have been easier but guess what they didn’t ask God…through Jesus…they asked the devil.
Wait. I think your train of thought is drifting here.
Maybe you were responding to A)? If so, I have to say that I still think it has pretty terrible theological implications if God has to wait to be petitioned by the downtrodden before He will intervene on their behalf. What was he doing beforehand? Looking down from on High saying “Wow, those Haitians sure must like being tortured, enslaved, beaten, raped, and boiled to death in vats of cane sugar. Weird.”
YOU
F)
G)
H)
I’m not sure which of my statements you are responding to with these, as I didn’t include an F, G, or H.
I THINK that your answer J might be a response to my E), however. So with your permission, I will reformat it to
JOSEPHONE
E)Interesting that you should bring that up. America is still haunted by the curse of the spirit of slavery and still can be divided on that issue. But you can’t see how that effect us now can you?
An interesting statement. Yes, I do understand how a history of slavery in the United States still causes division. I have family history on that matter.
However, it’s a straw man argument here.
And finally
JOSEPHONE
Finally, in all honesty you are defending the enemies spiritual attacks on a godly man Pat Robertson, on a godly ministry CBN and ultimately instead of helping a brother out and entering into spiritual warfare on behalf of the people of Haiti insist on defending their spiritual bondage. I really hurt for them and for you. May Jesus help you see and take your blindness away. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Firstly let me state that I feel I am, in fact, acting justly in this situation. Robertson’s words are false, and I believe that the Bible states that we must speak out against and denounce false witness.
Second, allow me a brief personal eye roll at the invocation of infallible personal truth here to justify your position. It is a sure sign of the weakness of your argument that you must resort to that final line of the ethically, morally, and theologically desperate.
Ed,
You chose your questions well. You approached the issue from within the framework of a Christian belief system, even though I believe you no longer have such a viewpoint.
I’m a non-Christian and will look at this from outside the structure of the Christian mythos. Expressing beliefs unsupported by physical evidence is the right of every religious person, protected by US law and international treaties supporting religious freedom. Such beliefs are called “faith,” and often include ideas voiced by atheists as well, particularly in academic settings.
No evidence, even a careful examination of primary and secondary written sources, supports the existence of a devil, satan, or any dualistic focus of evil. Since no one can prove that such a being exists, their opinions have no validity for anyone who fails to share their belief system. If that is the case, those who do believe in the eternal damnation of Haiti, and who, through action or inaction, deny basic human rights to disaster victims, are international criminals.
You can believe anything you like. You may practice any rituals you choose. You may not use your faith as a weapon against the rest of us who are bound by the limits of physical evidence, national and international law.
-Steve
Wow! Talking about a double-edged sword here.
Pat Robertson has said some very misleading and disparaging remarks throughout his lifetime. Haven’t we all?
Then, to condemn the guy with such words as, “Shut up” isn’t enough. Instead, it is done in a public forum rather than in a private setting as the Bible instructs (see Matthew 18:15).
Things that make you go, “hmm”.
I am deeply saddened for today’s evangelical church.
Maranatha! Come, Lord Jesus.
I am deeply saddened by today’s evangelical church too. But probably for different reasons than you are.
This thing about private vs public reprisals has a lot to do with why people are running away from christianity.
You are complicit when you are silent. If there are people hijacking your religion, using it to line their own pockets while spouting the most hateful, hurtful things imaginable, you need to raise your voice for those harmed. Because these people will never listen to the ones they target. But seeing your loud voices drowning out their hate would help.
It’s unfortunate that Pat Robertson felt the need to remind us of this historical tidbit. Ultimately he’ll have to explain it to the Father, lets just leave it at that…
Those who do not speak out against injustice simply allow it to continue.
The injustice being that Haiti has been under much more devastating spiritual problem for a lot longer and christians have done very little to help them through that.
I would imagine those are the same christians that are complaining about Pat Robertson.
Instead of fighting him and each other we should be helping the Haitians and be entering into spiritual warfare so that the spiritual bondage they are in can be torn away and spiritual freedom can come to them finally. After all we as christians don’t take care of them spiritually too we shouldn’t even bother taking care of their physical needs.
No JosephOne, the injustice in the matter under discussion being the blaming of the victims for their misfortune.
And one needn’t choose between denouncing Robertson’s falsehoods and helping those in need. Doing the one does not preclude doing the other.
God made most of us capable of handling more than one issue at a time.
But not capable of using discern in seeing the truth?
And perfectly capable of accusing a man of God like satan.
Yeah, I am wary of just who your spiritual father really is.
JOSEPHONE
But not capable of using discern in seeing the truth?
And perfectly capable of accusing a man of God like satan.
Yeah, I am wary of just who your spiritual father really is.
ME
Ecclesiastes 1:2. ‘Nuff said.
P.S. I don’t have a spiritual father. I was born of a man and a woman like most people.
BOOM!
^_^
Um…so your father isn’t God? Then as I suspected it is satan. Your spiritual father that is. Just like the Pharisees.
Ever since Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, we all have been “cursed.” Yet that doesn’t mean that every tragic event is God’s punishment.
“For the wages of sin is death, and all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”
With that said, if destruction and death hits him, I guess it would only make sense that it was because of some sin in his pass or his parents pass. And such was a punishment from God. At least in his theory.
As a minister there is times to talk, and times to shut up. Times to strike “fear” of God into people and times to show love.
“To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps”
I never recall Jesus being the way, Robertson was, when he spoke.
Even though I support the rights of people to minister and speak freely, in my opinion his comments were untimely and un-Christian.
Sometimes we all need to know when to shut up, and I think my time is now, before I say something “stupid” about him.
Reverend,
Something in your comment jarred something loose in my head and made me rethink somewhat my reaction to Robertson’s words.
It was your statement “I support the rights of people to minister and speak freely” that got me to thinking. And you are right, absolutely right.
Telling Robertson to shut up, though it would be viscerally satisfying in the extreme (at least for me), isn’t the proper response to his behavior. Stifling the opinions of others is neither the appropriate path, nor is it in all likelihood an effective one.
The best way to deal with things like this is to stand up, head high, and say to the world “Pat Robertson is a liar! His words are untrue!”
I note in passing that as one who speaks publicly for a living, you can likely be more eloquent than I in that regard, but I digress.
The proper response to public statements of such falsehood as Robertson’s is equally public statements of truth, shouted long and loud and clear.
I wonder if Robertson is worth all this attention? He’s not the light of the moral majority anymore – his time is past. Should Christians be calling him out? I fear this only draws more attention to someone we should – and here is a practice we need to recover – shun, excommunicate, kick out.
Anytime a public Christian says something stupid, the blog roll goes insane with condemning him (or her). Wouldn’t our energy be better spent praying and working for the people who are actually suffering?
It is never unreasonable to meet falsehood with truth.
I did not suggest any of this was “unreasonable,” rather I implied it was imprudent at best and, at worst, useless. Does anyone really think Pat is going to apologize?
Pastormack, the problem is that the media and many outraged Americans have already called Robertson out for what he said. I agree with you that ordinarily, he should not be given this much attention, but if we as the Christian community do not flatly, publicly reject these kind of thoughtless and insensitive comments when they become widely circulated, then we run the risk of further ruining ourselves. At the same time we’re doing this, we also pray and give of ourselves. One doesn’t preclude the other.
I am not a Christian in the least. However, against my better judgment I came here to read to see what the “other side” is saying about the travesty in Haiti. I am refreshed in seeing that not all Christians are like Mr. Pat Robertson and his mindless ranting.
Good Job!
Thank you… No, we are not at all. I don’t necessarily take sides with different factions of Christianity, but when someone of Robertson’s notoriety says those kinds of untimely, insensitive things in the face of such human suffering, the Christian community as a whole must swiftly condemn it. As you can see, folks are running to PR’s defense, but I believe they are only making things worse by trying to justify it in any way. There’s simply no excuse for what PR said.
No thank you for speaking your mind and thoughts and allowing a heathen to comment :)
We should not send Haiti any money or aid at all. How much did they send us when we experienced Hurricane Katrina or after the 9/11 attacks? NONE! That is what we should send them.
You reap what you sow, right? What have they sowed?
Nothing!
Actually Haiti sent $50,000, provided additional relief assistance for Haitian immigrants living in the path of Katrina, and provided rebuilding assistance through several of their own relief organizations.
Haiti is one of the most impoverished countries in the world, and they should not be expected to help us out or criticized if they fail to do so. However, despite their poverty the Haitians I have met have tended to be among the friendliest, warmest, and most generous people around; they will share what little they have.
Well written Chris. Too many times public figures say things that hinder our efforts as pastors as we try to reach the unchurched community and present them Christ. I pray folks understand that some do not speak for all – but we have that issue in our own denomination when Board of Church and Society or some Bishop speaks – and people think they speak for the whole of the church – and they do not.
We are taking up an offering the next two weeks for UMCOR – I believe that stands for United Methodist Committee on Relief but I could be wrong. 100% of money sent will go to the relief effort. All administrative costs are taken from another pot.
Be blessed and bless someone today. Preach the Word Sunday with love and conviction!
Your friend I remain,
It’s certainly a reminder to those of us who speak publicly that what we say can either heal or wound. I’ve learned that lesson both ways in the past.
UMCOR is awesome! They’re already formulating plans to be on the ground in Haiti, and they’ll be there for a while. Believe it or not, but there’s still an UMCOR presence in the Gulf Coast, years after Katrina.
Thanks again, Ray, and for your faithfulness to the Word!
Has the church fallen that far in these days nearing the last days that we must bicker and tear each other apart over yes a statement that was ill-timed concerning the disaster but still completely truthful concerning the spiritual condition of people.
The church and christians are now unable to listen to truth and would rather attack truth and a godly man that spoke truth rather than enter into spiritual warfare with satan, bringing spiritual freedom to Haiti as well as bringing aid and relief and comfort in this their time of need.
I haven’t noticed anyone here mentioning prayers for Pat Robertson, prayers for Haiti and what the plan is just to get past the spiritual poison toward Pat and instead come together and support the relief he and CBN is sending as well as what other plans there are to help Haiti. In an age where satan is wiped out a whole denomination through homosexuality {the Episcopals}, I shouldn’t be surprised, it is prophesied in Revelation but it grieves me to no end that we are displaying ourselves in a way that is unloving, unchristianly and being used of by satan to get the world to be driven further away from Jesus. I think the devastation is bad in Haiti but don’t let that become a devastation that rips the christian community apart.
Anyway, Chris, you are a spiritual leader, I advise you to think and pray a lot more before you take an elder to task and if you still feel you must do so with much more love and in a kinder way. Before I finish, I apologize and ask forgiveness from all here and from God for any comments I have posted that came out harshly and that I myself made in anger and not love, but I still feel that no matter how you felt about this, it should have been done in a better way and in more loving way. Now can’t we move on, pray for Pat and Haiti and join with Pat, CBN and other ministries and help rebuild Haiti physically and spiritually? That is what our focus should be on. That is where and how our love will be shown to the world {including forgiveness of Pat if you think he needs it} not this backbiting. Praise God, the battle is His, and the victory is ours because we are all His {including Pat and you too Chris}. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Very nicely said, Joseph. As you may tell by my earlier post, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Seeing Christians and non-Christians publicly flogging another Christian in a public forum is, in my view, more distasteful than any remarks made by Robertson.
Based on my last post I want to be the first:
First I would like to lift up Haiti and all of the people right now facing such an incredibly horrendous disaster. I ask You God that You will bring peace and comfort and help and relief to them where they are right now. I ask God that You would reach into the lives of every Haitian person and every rescue worker and every ministry worker and relief worker that is over there now and do not let a disaster like this allow satan a win, but somehow bring something good out of all this by bringing people closer to each other and closer to You and by letting them know that You do care even when all seems hopeless.
Second: I ask You God that You would reach into the lives of christians all over the world and that we would stand together in unity in Jesus for the world to see reaching out to those in need despite our differences.
I also ask that You God would be with Pat Robertson, if his comments need forgiveness, forgive him and let other brothers and sisters forgive as they see fit. Bring a new revival through him and CBN and bless him and CBN in abundance to help them continue the good work You do through them. I ask for Chris and all here, that again if their comments need forgiveness {as well as mine} forgive us, and help us to forgive each other and get past it all to move on and to get on with the work of Jesus Christ and helping those in both physical and spiritual need.
Praise You God for the battle is Yours and satan will not win his battle with Your people in this time of such need. We love You God and despite things we have said, or thought or felt about each other and about the situation we love each other in Jesus Christ. Thank You for Your Great Mercy Lord and keep us always in Your care and under Your covering. Always In Jesus’ Name, Amen. Peace, Mercy and Grace be to you all here okay. JosephOne.
You’re not the first one to pray, sir. You’re just the first showy, self-promoting, sanctimonious jackass who needs to act in the mold of his TV entertainer false man of God (Mark 7:6, buddy) and publically beat his breast to show his holiness. Your prayers go nowhere but into Pat Robertson’s wallet, along with his Liberian gold mine money, his godless theft under the banner of Operation Blessing (diamond mining is Christlike?), and his endless love for dictators who help line his pockets and market his wares. You think he is a man of God—and your willful ignorance is clear.
You have no moral standing, and no authority found in truth. Rant away, you sad, silly little man, and defend your false God until you run out of voice.
We know who you are.
Mark 7:6.
Outstanding!!!
I saw it the same sort of way.
Thank you. And Thank everyone for their thoughts as I read through this, again.
So not even prayer is accepted?
Really, the church has fallen beyond what I could ever imagine. Getting judged for praying for the whole situation.
And yet, I still see know else is offering prayers or actual helpfulness for a fellow brother in Christ to at the very least bring him back to his senses if you disagreed with his comments and no prayer or plan or organizing or support lifted up to Haiti. Just a litany of hatred and diatribe toward a fellow elder brother in Christ.
May Jesus save us all and have mercy on all of us. We really have become satan’s puppets in discrediting christians, not just Pat, but you Chris and others here.
I tried the merciful way and prayful way. Now, I place you all, including Chris under the judgement of God, and I place a binding on you and your lips from continuing to do harm. May Jesus rebuke the spirit of hatred, judgement, unbelief, unforgiveness here. I leave you all in the hands of the living God. May He deal with you all appropriately.
Just discovered your blog :)
I will just say that as a Christian, I can barely tolerate these type of INSANE statements. As you pointed out, these people make all Christians look like bad as we are lumped in with the Pat Robertson’s of the world by the non-believing folks. They do not differentiate.
Excellent post!
The God I know doesn’t understand guilt and punishment . Pat Robertson’s remarks only perpetuates the view of God as vengeful and judgemental . This is just a projection of our own views of Life-it has nothing to do with God .
Was 9/11 and Katrina a verdict on the American people ? I would like to hear Pat Robertson tell New Yorkers that . He may just get out alive !
Hello Pastor,
They will know us by our love is really all that comes to mind. I am not sure “shut up” is a great choice of words for a man of God, who may have made an insensitive comment, but still does much to show the love of Christ to the world. That fruit of Jesus’ Spirit (love) triumphs over a misstep in judgement. After all, who of us has not said something offensive? He who could cast the first stone has chosen not to. I ask that you remember Jesus’ prayer that we would all be one, not only Jew and Gentile, but all Christians. We cannot be one if we disrespect one another. God keep you.
Hi Elyse- I hear what you’re saying about being loving. Jesus often had to say harsh things to the unfaithfulness he saw in religious leaders of his day. Like him, I love the Church and the unredeemed world too much to have been “nice” in the way I toned my comments.
Pingback: I Stand By My Comments on Pat Robertson « Pastor Chris Owens – - Musings, Rants, and Reflections
Someday maybe we can ask god about Haiti 2010?? It will be very interesting to find out why this happened??
The Canaanites sacrificed babies to Baal. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter after making a really, really stupid vowel to the Lord. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son because the Lord asked it of him. We all know what the Aztecs did. My Celtic ancestors used human sacrifice in a variety of ways.
My United States ancestors killed, stole from and marginalized the indigenous peoples of my country because they were in their way, and justified it because it was “manifest destiny” and God was “giving them the land just like he did when he gave the promise land to the Hebrews”. The Thuggee cult of India has killed millions in the name of Kali. Hitler killed millions because he had some screwed up vision of returning to the glory days of the Vikings. The Vikings destroys villages, killed women and children, raped and plundered, and did it all for personal glory, hoping that they might win a place in hall of their god Odin. I don’t think anyone could possible believe that the Spanish Inquisition wasn’t a horrible and screwed up piece of religious history.
If you go back into the past of every people on Earth, you find them worshiping spirits, gods, goddesses and what not. They did it, do it, and will do it in a wide variety of ways. If God held use each accountable for the actions of our ancestors, I am SURE that there would be an ancestor in each of our histories that made some deal with some spirit, or god, or some sort, and quite probably sealed the deal with blood. What is the statute of limitations?
Sure, Dessalines called upon the beliefs of his religion to inspire his people. Sure he, like almost every other leader of every culture every brought in his wisemen before a battle and had a ceremony. Is EVERY non-Christian ceremony of this type through all of history a “pack with the fallen angel Lucifer, of Judeo Christian belief?”. If so….. Wow. We all deserve a whole lot of wrath of God crap coming at us from what our ancestors did. Heck, Jesus’ ancestor David had one of his soldiers murdered so he could steal his wife. That sounds like a pretty ‘deal with the devil’ action to me. Is Jesus responsible for David’s actions, because he was of his linage? Just asking.
We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We all have turned our backs of him in thought, word and deed. We all deserve nothing more that eternal damnation. We all have times when we served a false god or two, where it was a voodoo spirit, a dead ancestor we worship, our need to ‘keep up with the Jones’, our own ego or just our own greed. I sure hope God isn’t holding my children accountable for every foolish and selfish act I have done. I certainly have deliberately sinned at times, and knew I was doing to, and was defiant about it, and yet he still pursued me and caused me to repent.
Dr. Robertson said something very, very stupid and insensitive which makes every decent Christian I know shudder. Heck, the Buddhists and the Hindu at my work were also offended. It makes me embarrassed and I want to lash out, but then he is human. I have made about three racist remarks in my life, which I did not even realize were racist and when it was pointed out felt terrible about. They still linger in my heart as an arrow to my own need for Jesus as my Messiah.
Let’s get over our embarrassment now. Let’s leave Pat alone and join with our Christian brothers (and our fellow human beings of other religions around the world) in praying for the people of Haiti, sending as much money as we can afford to help with relief efforts, and consoling anyone we come in contact with who had some personal connection to this destroyed country.
In Christ,
Mike
Looks to me like Satan won this round after all. Look at the tempest Pat Robertson’s words have caused. Look at the division and the rift. Look at the rebuke and the stir that has caused, even here on this blog. Look at what is printed in the papers, said in the news. My my the power of the tongue is a sight to behold ain’t it?
Now I am not wise enough to say who is wrong or right in the words that have been spoken, but here is what I do know…
James 3
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
I see a lot of tonguing going on and the house is yet divided even more. The body of Christ is suffering more and not because of the words of a man on TV.
Again what I know
James 3
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Again I stress I am of small degree and am in no way judging but me thinks there may have been a better way to approach this with Pat Robertson.
I will be sure to pray for the Haitians, oh and y’all too. May the peace of Jesus be with you and yours.
As a final note before bidding all a goodnight – tonight when I picked up my wife from work, she informed me that she had volunteered to go to Haiti. She is a native French speaker and a Civil Engineer with many years experience, so it is very likely that Engineers Without Borders will take her up on her offer of assistance.
I have never been more proud of her.
At the end of the day, whether you believe that what Pat Robertson said was abomination, the very word of God, or something in between, what he said was incidental. Tens of thousands of people are dead, and many more are injured, homeless, without food, without water, without shelter, without clothing.
Help them.
Even if they have made a pact with the Devil himself, they are still our brothers, our sisters, our fellow men and women – and they need us.
Help them. They need you. Help them.
It’s what Jesus would do. It’s what Buddha would do. It’s what John Wesley would do. It’s what Clara Barton would do. It’s what Stephen Fry would do.
Do one thing today. One thing. Donate money. Donate clothes. Support a relief agency. Anything.
The devil may have won in this scrimmage,,But, anyone who knows the word of God, knows how the final chapter ends!! All that matters is the final chapter,,It must really be hard for the devil to know his final outcome and can’t do anything about it..
He was defeated by the’ ‘finished work of Jesus on then cross at calvary’. Everything, death, sin and sickness all was defeated by the crucifiction of Jesus on the Cross.
God loves everyone ever born on this earth. He has offered a way or everyone to be saved and live eternally with him Its our choice to make..Either death with the devil and the evil or life with God forever,,Why is this so hard of a choice for many?
Anyone who denies the Holy Spirit is a fool,,the only sin God won’t forgive is refusing to accept Grace when offered by the Holy Spirit. All a person has to do to be saved is acknowledge and receive Jesus Christ through faith. ASK him to save you and forgive you for all the sins you have committed since birth.. ”SIMPLE AS CAN BE.’ GOD Bless…MLB
I confess I find spiritual advice for my salvation dispensed by an individual who calls himself “Mean Little Boy” somewhat suspect.
But that’s just me.
;-P
I think it was Anselm who said that silence was God’s gift to fools. He meant that monks who take a vow of silence are ‘wise fools,’ and that, in a larger sense, we are all fools. But I think he would not object if we applied his aphorism to this more limited case. Shush, Pat.
TOG
Chris Owen I thought for about 8 minutes , and my only comment is … find another job , this one honestly does not suit you well. You don´t know what your are doing nor what you stand for.
I think he knows EXACTLY what he is doing – he is telling the truth.
I think he knows EXACTLY what he stands for – the poor, the dowtrodden, the victims, the suffering. His fellow men and women in need.
Thank you for this article. I live in the UK. This tragedy seems to have brought out the very best of the US’s generosity both on individual and government levels, Christian and non-Christian agencies. But at the same time there are these nasty religious and political commentators (Pat Robertson Rush Limbaugh etc) who give Christianity and the US such a negative image here in Europe and throughout the rest of the World.
The press release of CBN re Pat Robertson’s cruel and inaccurate statement re Haiti didn’t go nearly far enough and surely Pat Robertson should be making a personal televised apology not leaving it to CBN’s spokesperson. . After all Pat Robertson claimed that this “pact with the devil” was a TRUE story (I’ve watched the video clip several times). He also said that it took place at the time of Napoleon 3rd (1808-1873) when in fact the slave rebellion was in the 1790’s at the time of his uncle Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821). It seems that Pat Robertson’s arithmatic may be as poor as his history and theology as the legend stated that the curse would last for 200 years . If Pat Robertson really believes the story, the curse should be over by now. I know that Pat is an old man but he has been making these horrible, very public, remarks for many years.
Amen and Amen!
Thank you, pastor, for clarifying to the public that not all Christians are judgemental. It is with comments like Pat Robertson’s that Christians have been looked upon as supercilious and hypocritical. It’s time for someone to tell others that it isn’t so, that Christians are loving and compassionate, ready to serve and never to judge.
I appreciate your effort. :] Thank you.
If Robertson had lived in the time of Christ – he would have been the Levite passing the sufferer in the road; he would have said the Galillean was a sinner, and deserved to die; he would have been a Pharisee, resplendent in his robes and deaf to God.
How can you call this man a brother in Christ? Christ threw the money-changers OUT of the temple; he likely wouldn’t have thought much of our energy-shake-selling, race-horse-owning Pat. Robertson bears a closer resemblance to the Wizard of Oz, than with Christ. He daily cheapens the word of God; he daily takes the Lord’s name in vain. It behooves Christians to stand against such hypocritical, lying monsters. Don’t let them speak for you!
The “Wizard of Oz” comparison made me laugh. But I think the Wizard was a bit nicer and more compassionate than Pat – after all he gave the Lion bravery, he gave the Scarecrow a brain, and he gave the Tin Man a heart – as opposed to selling them at a high markup and then blaming the Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man for their woes because the Lion was merely a beast, the Scarecrow a pagan idol, and the Tin Man an abomination against the Lord.
Pastor Chris Owens, your words are by no means any more productive or Christlike than Robertson’s. And you weren’t just talking off the cuff. You have written remarks that you had the opportunity to think over. Dozens of others have expressed the same type sentiments as you hold, but in a manner that was more becoming a man in ministry.
Robertson has a history of saying stupid things at highly inappropriate times. The more he speaks up and says comments like the ones about Haitians, the more I suspect God would like him to be q-u-i-e-t!
What Pat ought to do is simply act as a true Christian, and stop talking about others he feels are less than…
Hi Chris,
I think you said it well and I’m glad you said it.
blessings,
bart breen
I agree with you 100 per cent. The comments Pat Robertson made about Haiti were just plain stupid, whether you’re a Christian or not. It’s shows like his that give the faith a horrible reputation for being judgmental and fundamentalist in nature. UGH
That Pat Robertson sure is a silly man….Cant wait for him to be gone….
Pastor Chris,
You think that God need defending by coming out against what Pat has said. I totally disagree with you. I think what he said is the truth and to the level of distruction those words are appropriate. Is it a blessing to have so many tragedies in one place. Get real if that’s a blessing you should want some of it for yourself. Don’t be fooled. If its not a curse it must be a blessing.
There are many religious leaders that have preached on Generational curses, I could name a few. I guess you must have told them they are bad too.
Wow, Pat is responsible for christians having a bad name. I thought the Church already had a bad name. Do you know why God said judgement begins in the house of God FIRST. I could tell you. I have been in Church a long long time and I see why God is coming there first. I bet you won’t preach that to your congregation.
Leaders like you who want to be politically correct will stand before God and give an account for not preaching the full truth. Because you are a man pleaser and not a God pleaser. The truth will save lives.
Why don’t Christians love each other, isn’t that suppose to be what draws the world to Christ.
I think theres a part in your Bible that saws to preach to truth in season and out of season.
You don’t want to believe in Judgement because God would not do that. No wonder there’s so many Christians that have no fear or reverence for God of his house.
Judgement begins in the house of God first.
Teach the full truth of the word and stop being a coward and trying to make friends. The Broad road that the church is on is leading to destruction. Get on the narrow road with Christ and get off the broad road of popularity.
Hi Jenna- Well, first, thanks for your honesty. I always appreciate that from other people, no matter their points of view. And you’re welcome to keep doing so Also, I invite you to read my clarifying remarks on the post following this one.
Jenna, ask anyone who knows me, and they’ll tell you that I’m far from politically correct. There’s liberal political correctness and conservative political correctness, and I break the norms for each as the Spirit leads me. In this case, I found that Robertson overstepped. Some may believe that Robertson was being prophetic in proclaiming God’s judgment on Haiti in the earthquake. I did not. It would have been far, far more helpful if Robertson had simply prayed, expressed his sorrow for the suffering in Haiti, and rallied people to help. His attempts at theodicy, i.e. attempting to link the earthquake to some specific divine/human cause, were not helpful. And while he is not solely responsible for the church’s bad reputation, comments like his do indeed bring it from bad to worse. I have comment after comment on this blog alone to evidence that.
I believe in the judgment of God, both now and final. And I believe, much in the vein of Matthew 25 that we will all be judged. And I also agree, based in part on that portion of Scripture, that judgment begins in the house of God first.
And by the way, we both read the same Bible. Sometimes we reach different conclusions about the implications of the Word, but that’s okay. We can sharpen each other, as long as we’re both open to that.
Chris
I agree. I am so tired of satan using God’s children to destroy each other. We have forgotten love, forgiveness, we have forgotten how to pray, and even get judged when we do.
I am so grieved for the church. It really is nearing the last days. Maybe we are in the last days.
I know that if we would just take it to God, take Pat to God, take Chris to God, take each other to God in Jesus we could stand fast and satan would have no place or power. But we let satan get footholds and allow him to build strongholds with attitudes that are unGodly. We judge people for their attitudes but fail to call our own attitudes into account and end up doing the same or worse to those we are judging. I know my God is faithful but just how long will be patient with the church anymore? I myself find that I am guilty of it too and I have been having to pray and let go. That is the key, let go and let God. He can defend Himself and will protect His children that are humble. Humility comes so hard though doesn’t it? Anyway, I agree. God bless, and God bless everyone else here. I wish that my prayer would have been taken in the spirit of love and unity that I posted it as. I guess it wasn’t. {Sigh} I am so heartsick.
Oh well, now I can see why suicide had been an option for some. I will not give up and give satan the satisfaction. And the battle is God’s, but …. the thought is there.
JENNA,
please contact me…mlb
I’m not a Christian, but I think you hit it right, if I were considering looking into Christianity Pat Robertson’s comments would make me think twice.
Sadly, I could say the same about myself! Thanks for sharing your comments…
Chris, look what you have started and you haven’t as leader prayed for Pat or Haiti here.
What kind of spiritual leader are you that you lead people to unforgiveness, and judgement and accusations.
Chris, remember David? He did not kill Saul. He could have, but instead of killing Saul, he still respected him in the position Saul was in as a fallen anointed one. He let God handle it. And you know what happened after that.
Chris, the spirits of judgement, of unforgiveness and the spirit of the accuser is alive and well here. I come against those evil spirits right now in Jesus’ name, and in His name and by His blood, Jesus rebuke them and all evil spirits here. I am tired of satan using God’s children for his dirty work. I would ask you to read the account of David and Saul. Remember, an elder brother in Christ needs at least that much respect. But for now I place you and the others here you have been leading astray with your attitude in the hands of the living God. May His will be done with you all and drive out the evil spirits that reside here. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Okay, I commended Christ on another thread. Go to: A Sure Way To Help Haiti thread and find out some positive and real ways to help Haiti. This is what we as christians need to be about, and go about doing. God bless Chris for that thread. Also, keep the prayers coming for Haiti and every christian ministry and every relief organization in Haiti they need all the help and every prayer we offer up for them.
God bless you all and always In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
From reading the above posts, I can easily tell the difference between those that read the Word of God and those who do not. There are countless times in the Bible that God says, “Do not sin! Else sickness, destruction, or death will come upon you!”
So Pat Robertson is correct in stating that this earthquake is caused by the sin of making a pact with the devil in the late 1700s. I guarantee you that the devil does not forget things at all, especially when man makes a pact with him.
Examples:
1. Israel makes and worships a golden calf — sin. Result is earth opens up and death — punishment.
2. David numbers Israel — sin. Result is 70,000 people die in 3 days — punishment.
3. The whole book of Judges is a cycle of sin against God, then God allows death and destruction to come, then Israel repents and becomes the victor with a Judge. The judge dies and Israel sins again, then God allows death and destruction to come, etc.
4. Homosexuals organize Decadence Parade in New Orleans to mock God — sin. Result is Hurricane Katrina arrives the exact same weekend — punishment and sign from God saying REPENT!
5. Lutherans hold meeting in Minneapolis/St. Paul on allowing homosexuals to preach and participate in church activities — sin. Result is tornado hits only the Lutheran church and the Convention Center in a week of clear, blue sky — punishment and wake-up call from God saying, “I hate what you are going to vote on!”
So it does not matter if it was 3000 years ago or just a few days ago. If a nation, business, ministry, church, or yourself SINS, expect the police force (a.k.a. the devil and his demons) of the Kingdom of Heaven to come against you, punish you, and “steal, kill, and destroy” as Jesus told us.
I was also thinking of Jonah and Nineveh. Nineveh was going to be destroyed unless Nineveh repented as a nation.
The intriguing thing here is the voodoo connection Haiti and unfortunately New Orleans have.
God has not changed one bit, sin and curses have consequences. Repentence is necessary to escape said consequences. Now, not every disaster is because of sin. Job for instance. But there is a clear pattern and history in Haiti.
But people do not want to hear this part of the truth. Because it is the hard part. They want a hunky-dory kind of God that is a nice grandpa figure.
One other note. Just how much judgement is God holding back with America. I really shake at the thought when He decides to lift His protection and Holy Spirit off this country. It will be devastating. And much of the church will be at fault for leading so many astray into a kind of bubble-gum pop christianity.
Regarding Job, I have heard a few new things relating to his calamity and that Job’s sin was pride. In Job 35:2, Elihu, the 4th man watching the debate between Job and his friends, asks Job if he thinks that his righteousness is more than God’s.
Just like Lucifer when he became proud thinking to be better than God, he fell.
Of course, I need to study more on the whole book of Job, but from what I have recently heard from other teachers and pastors of the Word of God, it was Job’s pride that brought him down. And chapter 22:5-10 is interesting to consider as well.
Never really thought about that Kyle. I will have to get back to Job and read it. Chapter 22:5-10 huh?
I guess the difference being that Job finally humble himself before God, satan did not.
JosephOne,
Here are your words:
“I tried the merciful way and prayful way. Now, I place you all, including Chris under the judgement of God, and I place a binding on you and your lips from continuing to do harm. May Jesus rebuke the spirit of hatred, judgement, unbelief, unforgiveness here. I leave you all in the hands of the living God. May He deal with you all appropriately.” – JosephOne
Who are you? You don’t have the power to do anything but worry about your self. You have no power. You place ‘you all, including Chris, under the judgement of God?’ You really think God wants a dork like you on His side?
Actually yes.
There is no one here willing to do spiritual warfare with the enemy.
Therefore you are aiding the enemy.
God bless you but just as Chris stands by his comments so do I as well as my prayers.
Thank you Pastor Chris, I appreciate your reply. Points well taken and if I judge you incorrectly in anyway then please accept my apology.
I felt that too many people[the church and the world] was against one man not taking into account any good or compassion that he has contributed to the welfare of the people of Haiti and I don’t think he meant any harm or ill will. We can all say the right things at the wrong time.
I feel that there are too many lessons here to learn and I am concerned that we are so focus on Pat’s one statement that we will miss what we can learn from it. I think we all speak and regret saying things sometimes, but that is to be forgiven just as anything else. Yesterday needs to be yesterday and today new graces.
I look at things as a truth or a lie. I did know of that story before but I still went to
Wikepedia and check out the facts of what he stated and it was accurate.
I think God works through the good and the bad and thats the reason I say God needs no defending. We cannot understand the suffering of the world and no one can explain it, that is why when anything bad happens, we all say Why God? Its not that we all blame him for the bad things, but we can’t understand why he allows it. God uses all things to serve his purpose even the bad.
Job was righteous and he suffered, some suffer for righteousness, some suffer for unrighteousness but one thing for sure is that we all suffer, well maybe theres some fortunate ones, I don’t know. No matter the reason, it is normal for us to look and see if there’s something we did or didn’t do.
I think that is quite normal. I think Pat quoting the Haitian history was trying to find an explanation for their horrendous suffering.
We see in the Bible when such horrible things happen, People cried out to God and repented so we all must learn.
I pray it make us all better Christians, more loving and more forgiving and seek to wise and not foolish virgins, to be wheat and not tares because Christ is soon to return.
Let our debates end and let our hearts cry for Haiti and cry for ourselves because these are signs of the times.
New grace for today
Thanks and God Bless.
Amen to that! I think you eloquently, and more importantly, respectfully addressed the issue at hand.
To paraphrase Noam Chomsky, we should not allow the powers that be to dictate our debates, as often times they are not debates worth having. The medias has hammered this point home as an opportunity to discredit a man of God. As church leaders understand, it is an awesome responsibility to be a spokesman for God and as scripture states they will be judged even more harshly for the words they speak. It is with great fear and trembling that they even approach the pulpit (at least I hope they do!).
I pray for all church leaders out there, that God’s words and guidance may be clear to them so that the Good News of God’s salvation through his son Jesus can reach all corners of the world!
Believe me, Jenna, I’m all for putting the whole Robertson thing behind me, too. I tend not to dwell on things like that, even as I discerned the need to address his comments at the time. And I agree with you that our God can work through both the bad and the good, especially the bad and the good in each of us. Thanks for your comments and your heart, Jenna.
I do not agree with Pat Robertson’s comments but I also do not agree with the use of the phrase “Shut Up.” Though the intentions of your post are well meant and I understand your point, my mom taught me that it was mean and inappropriate to tell people to “Shut up.” To heed the instructions for living put forth through Paul to the Ephesians in chapter 4, we should aim to speak to build up others.
In both cases, Robertson’s and Chris’s, tactfulness could be employed to show God’s grace, mercy and compassion when reprimanding one another.
As the body of Christ, let’s “keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.”
Well, I also had some fellow believers tell me that I shut have put “the” and a four-letter explicative between “shut” and up”. I rarely run around being that bombastic. And I’m not flamboyant. But in this case, I needed to use some strong words to both condemn what Robertson said and to grab peoples’ attention. Apparently, I succeeded far better than I had originally intended.
Many people have also tried to defend what Robertson said, citing the place for God’s judgment and the consequences of sin, both of which I believe in, by the way. My concern was the timing and appropriateness of his comments. I also wonder how we can be so certain that this earthquake was directly linked to the causes he cited. I have a feeling that if Robertson had a redo opportunity, he would have retracted that statement. I only hope that in the comings days, he’ll recant.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the use of expletives, as other believers suggested, because I feel Christians do not need to resort to the world’s way of doing things since we are not of this world.
On the other hand I am with you on questioning the timing and appropriateness. I also hope that if God leads him to recant that he will be obedient and timely in doing so! I’m willing to accept, though, that maybe we don’t know if that’s what God put in his heart to say in the first place…I know it’s an extremely unpopular sentiment that I am expressing here. We’ll just have to wait and see what transpires.
Respectfully,
Expat Mami
Timing of message Pastor Chris? Your timing or God’s timing? How do you square what you just said with what God says?
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American King James Version
1 I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned to fables. 5 But watch you in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry.
Walt- It’s curious you should quote that passage. That’s one of my favorites and the passage God used to call me to pastoral ministry. In addressing Robertson’s comments, I was living into this call from 2 Timothy.
Whether I agree with Pastor Roberts or not makes no never mind. I would submit that the church is spending way to much time ear tickling and talking while a world that is in need of the plain truth of the word of God suffers. Jesus is coming soon and the church is worried about whether Pastor Roberts statement was appropriate or not, whether his statement was appropriate. Sad. Yup time is short.
BTW I came to Jesus during a really bad time in my life and I still bless the man that did not mix words about my savior Jesus. He did not pull punches he told me the plain truth. He did not worry about timing or hurting my delicate little ego. Salvation is a matter of life and death. Let us remember that Jesus calls us to salvation first then we respond. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that causes us to drop everything and follow him (Jesus).
Pastor Chris
I am nothing, No one great, just a servant. I probably have no right to address you in the fashion I have. I do believe in respecting authority and you are a Pastor, I am not. Please, I hope you know I offer what I say in a spirit of love and not condemnation. Please.
The world needs pastors like you, men of passion for the word of God. I only remind you that this world is hurting from the lack of men professing the undefiled word of God in season and out. If we wait for the appropriate time for “some” messages, we lose opportunity.
May God bless you and your ministry.
your humble servant
Walt
Thank you, Walt! I may be a pastor, but I’m certainly not beyond reproach. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for your heart, brother. God bless you!!
Chris
I agree and well said! He needs to “shut up”! We should all be praying for the people affected and in pain, not blaming them for a natural disaster! So sad…
http://www.inspireyourspirit.com
I am a Haitian born-again christian living in Canada, and quite frankly, I would like to share you this:
Even though Haiti has a historical voodoo background, a lot of Haitians are devout Christians, born-again, and have much more faith than a lot of us in America. In the middle of this crisis, a lot of them began praying AND SINGING PRAISES UNTO GOD (through Jesus-Christ I must add), and some people that I know who were there reported me that they were hearing praises and hymns here and there through the nights.
A lot of them have lost their parents, children, loved ones or deared friends. They lost their houses and are sleeping outside on the grass, with the same clothes on them. Some have lost an arm, a foot , a leg. No food, no shelter, no hospital, no money. But what they would say? You will hear them saying “as long as I have Jesus, everything will be ok”. Remember no shelter, no food, probably no family. Haitian Christians have a heart for God. A heart that sings praises to him even though they lost all. And I mean ALL.
Now tell me: If it happened to us (911, Katrina, Oklahoma, etc.) how would we react? Would we be singing praises like the haitians or requestion our faith? Be frank people.
Pat Robertson’s comment is full of ignorance of the contemporary Haitian culture and people. My pastor (who is Haitian Baptist) keeps on telling me how the power of the name of Jesus is so incredible in Haiti, how many are converted to Christ simply by seeing how powerful His name is above all names (remember this is from a Baptist minister). And rejecting voodoo’s occult practices, they devout themselves to their savior whether they have food or not on the table.
Now tell me if God would now curse a whole nation that has since changed because of one occult practice more 200 years ago…
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ” – Rom. 8:1 (KJV)
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: ” Gal. 3:13 (KJV)
Amen. I am blessed and pleased to hear about all of this. However, curses can still effect a nation. Look at the curse of slavery still haunting America. And all the issues that go along with it.
We have victory over the curses through Jesus and His blood and word but we must continually be aware and not let any foothold in.
God bless you and I am truly heartsick over the devastation Haiti has experienced. May God be with you and all of Haiti. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Jean- Please, please know that you and your neighbors and family from Haiti are in my prayers. I have heard stories like the one you share, and frankly, those stories deeply humbled me. How people can worship, praise, and thank God in their suffering is a grace I hope to be given when I need it, too. If you don’t mind, I’d love to share your story with my congregation. God bless and keep you and the people of Haiti!
Chris
Click to access warning_to_leaders.pdf
Chris I read this. I need to deal with some stuff myself. I post this for myself, for you, for others here and for Pat Robertson.
Read carefully. And prayerfully eveyone. God bless. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/r…
January 28, 2010, 10:50 am
Robertson’s Charity on the Ground in Haiti
By ROBERT MACKEY
I am way late here but I got here because I was looking to see if Pat Robertson said New York and New Jersey was punished by God though the Hurricane named Sandy. He did so with the earthquake in Haiti so I thought I would see if he would reapeat that kind of talk again. I searched Google for “God’s Wrath+Natural Disasters” and found this.
Pat Robertson and CBN’s charity was great and well needed by the people of Haiti. The problem is that if he and his organization is charitable and then uses that charity to more of less push the people to accept his/their ideology and faith it is wrong. You can’t say I will help you but you are evil satanist and need to repent and expect people to want to convert.
There is plenty of time to convey the wrath God has toward the wicked but the first thing to do is to be seen as the lamp on top of the hill that is uncovered for all to see. That is done through kind words and actions that show love and not through self righteous indignation and judgment.
Once people know Christ Jesus they can then in their hearts know if they are pleasing to God and they can know if they are in favor or disfavor with him.
The first thing Christ sought to show the world was that he has immense love and wants us to know that love.
Charity can be love but it can not come through condemnation threats and preconditions if it is to be seen as love. If “charity” and love is to be shown it should always come freely and love will show those being loved the wages of their sin through Christ Jesus. If all people think of the lord is that he is a mean and angry savior who seeks to hurt people before they can know anything kind or good how does that serve the lord or his purpose?
Love spreads like wild fire and so does condemnation and intolerance. I would rather we show Christ love and let Christ be the judge of those whose hearts are called to the faith.
Chris — Thank you for your uplifting thoughts and censure of Pat Robertson’s words on Haiti. I hope they help him to reconsider the way he thinks on this.
Robertson’s “true story” is incorrect on several points. He named Napoleon III (1808-1873) as the “prince” the revolutionaries were trying to get free from.
The meeting at Bois Caiman took place in August 1791 and marked the begining of the Haitian revolution (1791-1804). At this time period, King Louis XVI and his Marie Antoinette were still techically on their thrones.
The Haitian revolution was a bloody period of history.
So was the French revolution which is what was actually going on in France during most of the 13 years of the Haitian revolution
King Louis XVI of France was executed on January 21, 1793 During the French Revolution, between 18,000 and 40,000 people were excuted by guillotine. Many beheadings took place for about one year, France’s “Reign of Terror,” from 1793 to 1794. Often people consider the start of the French revolution as July 14,1789, the storming of the Bastille. Others fix French revolution’s begining date with the excutions in 1802.
Nor was the French revolustion any more Christian in tone. During the French revolution, the rebels Guillotined several holy statues in Notre Dame Cathedral, as well as sundry clergy.
http://www.helium.com/items/1168995-who-was-guillotined-during-the-french-revolution
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_were_executed_during_the_French_Revolution
You may also want to read this article
“Comparing the Legends of Bois Caiman
WHO SAYS WE DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT, PAT ROBERTSON?”
http://www.jesterbear.com/Aradia/HaitiDevilCompact.html
It discusses the urban legends which have grown up around the meeting at Bois Caiman in 1791, which probably did include a Vodou ceremony. It is significant that Pat Robertson refered to the event as a “pact with the devil” and not as a ceremoney of another religion.
I wonder if Pat Robertson will say that Chile is cursed due to the recent eath quake there?
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Dr. Jean R. Gelin wrote an article several years ago explaining that perpetuating the story of the curse on Haiti is actually faulty Christian theology. Gelin is a licensed minister of the Church of God and holds a Ph.D. in plant sciences and works as a scientist in agricultural research. He serves as an assistant pastor for a young Haitian-American church in the United States.
God, Satan, and the Birth of Haiti
http://www.BlackAndChristian.com
Part One http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-10-05.shtml
Part Two http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-11-05.shtml
Part Three http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-12-05.shtml
Chris, dont you do the same thing you accuse Pat Robertson of doing…. being judgmental?? You tell them man to “shut” up in the most “respectful” way! Give me a break!! You need to practice your own advice, buddy!!
Pats point is valid! Anyone who cant see that has allowed their own feeling cloud clear judgment. I’m not going to attempt to explain “why” God does what He does, thats not my job. However, lets not forget God judging the earth with the flood… RAIN, for those not paying attention. A natural, everyday phenomenon. And yes, it rained on the just and the unjust that day, but the just were saved through faith and obedience.. by building an ark!
Lets not forget the plagues that He sent to the nation of Israel …. because guess what?? THEY NEEDED IT!
I challenge you Chris, to study the doctrine of imprecatory prayer, and THEN make another value statement on Gods love in the world, as YOU see it.
I’m not making light of any tragedy. It was horrible! But, guess what? God is on His throne! He is in control! He is fair and just, FAR beyond our rationale and reason. If He sent an earth quake to Haiti, then their is no way you can say that it wasnt fair! It was fair! Thats not the question.
The question is, can you serve a God that you cant make sense of, even in tragedy, KNOWING that He is fair and just?
Answer in your own heart, and in the meantime Chris, YOU SHUT UP!!!
Respectfully,
Kevin
Kevin, you say I’m being judgmental for telling Pat Robertson to “shut up”, and then turn around and tell me to do the same, signing off “respectfully”. Honestly, I’m not sure what to make of that!
I’ve made quite clear to the number of people who have responded to this post that I am not judging Pat Robertson, in that I’m not judging his character, his motives, or his faith in Jesus Christ. To make statements about any of that in some kind of authoritative way is judging. That’s why Jesus says that disdainfully calling someone “a fool” puts us in danger of the fires of hell. Nor did I ever say that Pat Robertson was being judgmental.
What I am doing, however, is condemning what Pat Robertson said for being awfully presumptuous and terribly insensitive. Without getting into an argument about theodicy, how is Pat Robertson to know with certainty that this earthquake was unequivocally linked to the Haitians’ devil worship from generations ago? Even if there was a chance he was right, what good does it do to say something like that in the time and manner in which he did? What fruit does that bear in a time in which we were all grieving and in shock for the people of Haiti. There is a time for theodicy and examining the judgment of God as it pertains to Haiti, but it’s not now while their wounds are still so deep and painful. That’s why I used the strong language, something I rarely ever do, except in extreme cases like these.
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The topic of Gods wrath came back to my attention with the recent Hurricane that did great damage to New York City and other parts of New York as well as parts of New Jersey.
Thanks Chris for your sound reasoning and lack of judgment. While it may be possible that people suffer Gods wrath I find it to be ridiculous that God punishes the bad and lets the good suffer with them.
Check out this link and part of the what is in it is below. It seems to show that God is great enough that he is not going to punish the good along with the bad. He does not need to do that. If God wants to punish bad people the good people would be fore-warned.
http://scienceray.com/earth-sciences/are-natural-disasters-divine-punishments/
Firstly, in the Biblical times, God’s divine punishments would happen after a fore-warning! Secondly, unlike the natural disasters of our times which kills indiscriminately both the good and the bad people, in the Biblical times, natural disasters would only selectively kill the incorrigibly wicked or those who refused to listen to the warnings. Thirdly, even if a natural disaster happened amidst a mixed people of good and bad behavior, God still had a way of making good people escape, which is not the case with the natural disasters we see in our times.
I worked for Pat Robertson’s American Center for Law and Justice for over 20 years, as Senior Counsel, in the Washington, DC, office. My thoughts on his unChristlike remarks: http://jimsjustsayin.blogspot.com/2013/08/former-aclj-employee-robertsons.html
Pat Robinson, what are you a preacher or a politician? I follow you on the 700 club and all you talk about is politics. Backing Tramp on the territerrible path he is leading America. Where is your compassion as a christian.you are against those refuges who are so helpless, yet you support Tramp in refusing them a shelter in US. Be a true christian.